COMMUNITY FORUM #5

FORUM #5: "The Actor, The Observer, and The Creator"

The focus here is on how the three major parts of SELF express. What are these parts, and how do we know what parts are expressing at what times? How do we awaken to become more aware of The Observer and especially The Creator parts of ourselves? In particular, we want to share specific techniques for doing this.

The "Actor" part of us is the doer ... it is the part that does things and experiences things. You might say that it is the part of us that is out front experiencing reality. Often we are so lost in playing this role that we neglect that anything else exists. But there is more, much more. One finds this by realizing what the limits of the actors awareness are. In particular, when we look deeply at how the actor operates, we find that it does not always know what it is doing or why it is doing what it is doing. In many cases, in literally has no clue. One must remove oneself from the actor's shoes to become aware of a greater perspective where it is possible to really observe the actors actions and determine what they mean in the greater scheme of things. While one is confined to the actor role, one is lost within the trees ... one is to close to events to see the forest of which they are but a part. Also, in many ways the actor is but a puppet on a string. The actor has a role to play, but the actor is NOT the playright ... the actor does not create the role, it only "performs" the role. Yes, there is free will involved in the performance. However, this free will only operates within the narrow confines of a role that is already cast. Such is my understanding and experience anyway. Feel free to offer you own understanding and share of your experience.

The "Observer" part of us is the watcher ... it is the part of us that sees what the doer does and experiences and tries to make sense of it all. I have been aware of this part for over two decades now. Three years ago, it became the dominant part of my awareness during a series of awakenings. It still occupies that role for me. From what I've seen, however, many people have little awareness of this part of themselves. Further, many of those with awareness of themselves as the observer, do not take the next step and recognize this part of self for what it is and find a way to integrate it as a major part of their being. No, that does not mean stepping back from life. This is not a one or the other matter. It is possible to experience being the doer and the observer simultaneously. Experiencing the observer does not have to detract from being the doer. In fact, it should empower and enhance your actions. It does this because you are able to come from a place of greater understanding, a place that is more in touch with the true spirit that you are. As the observer, I am often dumbfounded and baffled by what I see happen. But more often, I am simple curious about what is unfolding and why it is happening in the way that it is. I trust that the reality I experience is being drawn to me to teach me exactly what I need to learn HERE and NOW. I know that another part of me, is the playright, the creator. That part is responsible for weaving the role that I watch the actor play and the reality that I see the actor experience. However, as the observer, I am also self-aware. I am able to observe my own awareness and take great pleasure in how it changes over time. I have no roadmaps to guide me, but I need none. Within me is a compass that I know that I can trust to guide me. I am consciousness in flesh. I am spirit expressing and experiencing myself in this domain. If I am also existing in other domains, I personally am not consciously aware of that experience so it matters not to me. What does matter is become evermore aware. Aware of my true nature as spirit, and hence aware of the nature of spirit, period.

Beyond the actor and the observer lies the "creator". Thus far, I deduce that this part exists, but I have not personally experienced being this part or even being in touch with this part. I fully believe that "I" create my own reality. Over 22 years ago, I was introduced to this concept and knew it to be a great truth. However, there is a catch. The definition of "I" is not something to be taken lightly. This "I" is clearly more than the present "I" is consciously aware of. Also, as I have already stated, I have no conscious experience of being the "creator". My life's experience to date is confined to acting and observing. Why this is so is still puzzling to me. That it is so, however, is FACT ... at least for me. I do not have sufficient experience with others to know whether their experience is similar to my own or radically different.

If you experience your reality different than this, please join us and offer your understanding and awareness. Also, if you have questions on any of this, please come and ask whatever you wish. Collectively we can address issues with a much greater perspective than we can as individuals.

START OF FORUM #5 ON MACHU PICHU

lion: Namaste All! This is Community Forum #5 sponsored by The Search for Center Newsletter. For some background information on what we are here to discuss, click on lion.

lion: lion will be the forum instigator/moderator this evening. The intent of these forums is to bring groups of people together to share, learn, and grow with respect to the the issue or topic at hand.

We believe that by sharing whom that we are, what we know, and what we've experienced collectively ... we enrich the lives or all those who participate.

This is the first time we've attempted to do the forum in SWC. It may take awhile to get used to it. At least the response time seems decent tonight. :)

bg: have question - why do you say u haven't experienced the creator?

lion: To begin with ... do you experience these different parts of yourself? And, are they as distinct for you as they seem to be for me?

lion: bg: Because I have never experienced that part of myself. I only see the results. I don't consciously experience the creation process itself.

atlantis: Thank you. I just read the newsletter. Fascinating. My guides were just discussing this exact same thing with me the other night. I guess I really should trust in them more. They really do know what they're talking about.

bg: i do experience the 3 - not really separate, the observer is probably the most dominate

lion: bg: Do you experience the creator part? If so, how do you experience it? What does it feel like? Personally, I am only aware of the Actor doing things and The Observer watching and evaluating what is happening.

Wunjo: WOW atlantis I would love to hear what your guides said you can e me later :)

bg: lion, do you not think about what you want? that is creation.

lion: For instance, I claim no direct awareness of creating my own thoughts. I hear them in my head. I don't know who is speaking them there.

bg: often, folks call into being things they don't want too. that is also creation.

lion: No... to me, thinking is not creation. I am not aware of how the thought process occurs, and I definitely do not have any sense that I control it.

bg: lion, is the voice not your own?

lion: Yes, creation occurs. And yes, I believe that there is a part of me that is creating (or bringing to me) everything that I experience in my reality. However, I have no conscious awareness of being that part of me.

raven: recognizing the creator in me is recognizing the whole world as creation...from this standpoint, losing my individuality as a part, i can be the creator, but it transcends what i am as a human being...it takes my humanity as part of the equation...but it is much more than that.

bg: thoughts are electrical currents, which attract (as in an electro-magnet)

lion: No, the voice in my head is not something that I consciously "know" to be mine. I hear it. I don't sense "speaking" it. It flows into my mind ... and now, through my fingers to you. But no, I don't claim it to be mine ... I don't know it to be mine. I only know that it is able to flow through me.

lion: Very good raven! I think you are on the right track there. The source that feeds my mind is the same that feeds all minds. But I am not aware of being that source.

raven: mine doesn't come through as voices in my mind...it's more like a recognition of patterns...and the patterns repeat themselves...like fractals...so the creation comes forth in a holographic way. does this make any sense?

lion: I sense that I am connected to it. Not that I AM it. There is a big difference there. At least for me.

LadyMist: Wunjo, I just found your e-mail, came here right away!!! *pant* I don't know if I can contribute anything here, but I'd like to "listen."

lion: Yes raven. For some it is pictures. For me, it is sound and vibration.

bg: the voice inside my head is my own voice. when it is not, then i know it to be another entity.

raven: i shift my identity to become absorbed in the bigger I Am ness ... after all, it is all One...i lose who i am as a person...it's very hard to put into words...

lion: bg: Where do your thoughts come from? Are you consciously aware of creating them?

Wunjo: Hi LadyMist so glad you made it yes please listen that is what I am doing LOL:)

lion: What process(es) do you use to perform these "shifts" raven?

bg: I am, that I am, that I am... it feeds us all in the way that each of us can accept and understand.

raven: i silence all thoughts and focus on my heart...feel the light and love...and it just happens...i get a whole different perspective

Wunjo: well I feel missing my kitty and then I think about him:)

Wunjo: or do I think of him and then miss him HUMM

bg: at times i am aware of creating my own thoughts. i do pick up a lot of other folks' too, but they "sound" like my voice. i think it just a manafestation of "we are all one"

raven: wunjo, maybe he thinks of you and then you miss him :-)

lion: My experience of being The Observer changed dramatically just over three years ago. All of a sudden I was aware of a whole part of my being that I had thought I knew before, but that I had not really experienced. It was very strange. Most of the few people I knew thought that I went crazy. I even had a 10 day vacation in the local mental hospital.

atlantis: Raven, how do you silence your thoughts? I have tried many times but it's like a highway up there. If it's not my thoughts coming through then it's either my teachers or my students. They do go on and sometimes I have a hard time sleeping.

raven: lion, do you usually reside in the consciousness of the observer?

lion: Have any of you interacted enough with others to have a sense of what experience is common in this area and what is not?

Wunjo: raven I like that:)

raven: atlantis, i just detach myself from thought...i know that i can always recapture them if i want to...its a process of detachment...if they come into my mind i just let them go right back out without giving them any energy or attention.

atlantis: Thank you, Raven. I'll try that tonight.

LadyMist: Wow, that was a lot of background material! *smiles* I printed it, took longer than I thought.

lion: raven: YES, I am aware as the observer most of the time. However, this is often concurrent with the awareness of being the actor now. So, I am focussed on both doing and observing/evaluating meaning most of the time.

Wunjo: I would like to think that he thinks about me too :) atlantis: I won't insult them by just demissing it, will I. I will explain to them why I'm doing it, hopefully they'll understand.

bg: atlantis, do you see colors when u close your eyes? if so, focus on watching the patterns, without thinking about them

lion: LadyMist: That will be standard for these forums. I prefer discussions where people all have some idea of what we are coming together to talk about.

bg: lion, do u focus on being the creator?

LadyMist: Raven, would you describe what you do as meditation? Did it take a lot of practice to be able to do this?

atlantis: I see many colors. That would be a good start. I understand what you're saying. I'm willing to do anything to shut them out for a little while so that I could be alone, even if it's just with my own thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I love them and I'm glad they're here, but sometimes they get very demanding.

LadyMist: Wunjo, I miss a LOT of kitties... :((

lion: No bg: I have never experienced that state. So, I wouldn't know where to begin to focus to get there.

raven: lion, me too...it's a very delicate balance of attention. if you go too much one way, either observer, actor or creator, it doesnt work smoothly. i've also found that being the creator involves the very conscious use of language...in the beginning was the Word...i've contemplated what the essential nature of the Word is...still learning...but it seems to me that language is deeply part of the creation process.

Wunjo: LadyMist they seen to have short lives

LadyMist: Raven, are you talking about using affirmations? I've had some experience with creative visualization and affirmations.

lion: Though, one time I woke up got out of bed and told my wife I am God. She said "yeah, yeah, we are all god". I said, NO, with a BIG "G".

Wunjo: yes I think language is a fasinating thing

bg: lion, ever read the book "illusions" by richard bach? it started me "creating"...picture something completely, and have it be with you. it will come. (start small)

lion: YES, LOVED it!!!!

raven: Lady Mist, my meditations are very informal...my life is very quiet and reclusive so perhaps they just flow into my lifestyle. i dont have any particular method except to focus on my heart and clear out my mind.

LadyMist: Wunjo, most of mine have lived to reasonably old age, until the last one...everything seemed to be against him. Guess it was his Karma. *sigh*

lion: Indeed raven. Numbers and vibration have become a very important part of my life, revealing spiritual meaning embedded throughout our symbolic world.

LadyMist: Raven, I've gotten very good at detaching myself from my thoughts in the past, then lost the ability again, perhaps from disuse.

raven: lady mist, no i'm not talking about affirmations...i'm talking about being conscious of my words at all times and being responsible for my communications...they are like ripples that go out into the ethers and gather substance...creation involves sound and light...

Wunjo: :(

whatever: I think this topic is misleading

LadyMist: Wunjo...'s okay, I know my Mandrake exists somewhere...so does your kitty. :)

lion: bg: but what would I personally care to create? I've been very careful lately not to impose "my will" on anything. The final step before my "vacation" three years ago was completely renouncing my will to Thy Will. One of the problems I had taking Tony Robbins seminars was that I have never had any goals. There is nothing I want ... except to allow spirit to express through me as fully as possible HERE and NOW.

Wunjo: if your thoughts create then why not think positive so that you create positive things:)

atlantis: Raven, why do we need sound and light to create? I find that the darkness is best for me. Am I missing something here?

LadyMist: Hmm...but your words are a reflection of your thoughts, your state of mind, right? So isn't it more useful to be conscious of those?

whatever: If you're acting, aren't you a phony? If you're observing, you're not acting! If you're creating, you're not observing either

lion: atlantis: not necessarily. It seems in this area each of us must find our own path and follow it to wherever spirit takes us.

bg: lion, GOD GAVE YOU A WILL! use it to create beauty and joy, you do not need to "impose" it on anyone. make God present for others to see.

LadyMist: I think positive as much as possible. Sometimes it's not easy overcoming your old negative programming though.

atlantis: Lion, I understand what you're saying. I'm just experiencing those same feelings now. I have had them for only a few weeks.

raven: lion, i know exactly what you mean...the more i get into the creator aspect, the less i desire.

LadyMist: bg--good point!! *applauds*

lion: whatever: click on lion to get some background on how I use these terms.

lion: bg: I am doing what I am moved to do. My will is aligned with spirit. But I follow where she leads me.

atlantis: LadyMist, you have that right. Especially when someone does something to you and you want to strike back. I keep telling myself that it's wrong and that I must advance further spiritually rather than use the same negatives my ancestors, the cave people did.

LadyMist: I'm certainly most joyful when I'm creating. I then feel as if I'm aligned with the ongoing Creation....

lion: bf: Besides. I am not personally aware of GOD. My experience is with a connection to spirit or consciousness that I sense to be feminine.

raven: bg, if "your" will is separate from "God's" will, then you are separate from God...to bring the two to oneness means that there is no longer any separation.

diva: hello people!! i don't know many of you, but to those i do (and those i don't actually) much love!!

LadyMist: Atlantis, yes, that's often an issue for me too. I try to remind myself of that old saw, that the best revenge is to let your enemies see you doing well. *smile*

atlantis: Lion, you referred to spirit as a "she". I don't know what my guides are. The last one I had was a male. This time I'm being shown both male and female in one body. They tell it that gender doesn't matter.

lion: Agree LadyMist. I too am most alive and joyful when I am creating. However I use "I" loosely. When this process is occuring I experience creation happening through me.

bg: lion, what do you think spirit wants for any being? not you in particular.

raven: atlantis, i see spirit as both genders and no gender also.

LadyMist: Lion, true...we're creative channels. :)

diva: hey there LadyMist...what's the general line of thought here? it seems sort of creativity oriented...

lion: atlantis: this too is a matter where personal experiences differ greatly. I only know what I experience. My communication with others has been limited most of my life so I have no way of knowing how my experience compares with that of others. I'm just now starting to find this out.

LadyMist: Me too, raven.

lion: To express through that being as fully as possible.

LadyMist: It is, diva...you have to click on lion to get background info!

bg: if the vessel holds the water, it must be poured

atlantis: Lion, sometimes we have to separate in order to contemplate.

lion: atlantis: I have no experiences with guides of any type. I've had no physical spiritual teachers and nothing that I've been connected to spiritually has left the impression of being another entity. To me it is just "spirit" or "consciousness" ... and it feels feminine.

raven: atlantis, the separation is what the creator does for play... otherwise it would be alone...if all is consciousness, then what we perceive as reality is a mirror...when consciousness looks into the mirror what does it see?

raven: lion, are you a male or female body?

lion: Indeed raven! Further, if all is ONE ... the game is over.

lion: male

diva: Wunjo,LadyMist, got it. went there and it's an interesting perspective, but the creator part is different for me...

bg: consciousness sees it's own reality, opps, i mean reflection ;)

lion: Diva: please share what it is for you.

LadyMist: Let's hear it, diva! *smiles*

atlantis: Lion, with my old guides I was able to connect with them more readily and they were easier to understand. These new ones that I have are hardy and treat me as though I can't comprehend things at times, like a mother would to a child. I can agree with some of their reasoning but a lot of it eludes me. You talk about creating. I'm a writer, but lately I feel I can't create because they do it for me. Don't get me wrong, I love their input but more entire style of writing has completely changed.

Wunjo: tell us diva

lion: And what is "real" vs what is "illusion" in what it sees?

LadyMist: Confession: this is occasionally getting over my head...*lol*

raven: lion, as a male, it makes sense that you would perceive spirit as female...it is the reflection/opposite of what you have created...and when you look in the mirror the reflection is reversed.

atlantis: I was just going to say that, but it's more involved than that. I see myself when I look into a mirror, my physical body.

LadyMist: Raven, the yin sees the yang, and the yang the yin?

diva: okay, basically what i feel is that when i am creating (which is often, for i sing, compose music and write) i often feel as though there is something working THROUGH me, as though i am not entirely responsible for what just came out.

bg: real and illusion are points of perspective. the most centrally agreed upon reality for humans is "I AM".

tesa: The fact that we are apparently separate and many, does not make it so! We are all One Self....

lion: atlantis: Very interesting. 3.5 years ago I started writing metaphysical stuff. I have nearly 2000 pages now. Yes, it all came through me. However, I never had any sense of originating it. Nor did any entity claim to be it's author. I've read parts of it half a dozen times or more and still find it incredible that it came through me. To this day there is no real sense that I was the author. All of the material came straight though with no editing.

atlantis: I don't know. I've had guides that were male, female and now I have those without gender.

LadyMist: Yep, I think we were discussing that about the time you came in, diva--about being creative channels. :)

LadyMist: If we're all One Self...why are we arguing? *smile*

Wunjo: wow we have a creative group here I would like to get every ones e-mail before you leave if you dont mind:)

diva: i agree with tesa, hasn't anyone ever shared the same dream? how else can you explain that?

lion: Interesting raven. But if that is the case, how come all the Gods of the major religions are males when the highest members in the religious order are males???

atlantis: I know what you mean about "it came through me". They don't write for me, they create. They show. And they tell me how to do certain things. They show me what they want me to write about.

LadyMist: Wunjo, you have mine. By the way, I'm a writer too...have published some fiction, though I've been blocked recently. Also creative with my hands, mostly with fabrics.

bg: ladymist - it's not arguing. we are expanding our understanding of us. Looking thru the looking glass.

tesa: I have no guides, all I know is from my Self! :)

diva: pardon my ignorance, but guides? i'm lost. i'm not aware of any specific guide, just one creative Force working through me....

raven: lion, i'm not sure that's entirely true...there are some matriarchal religions in the world today...shamans are often women...i'm not sure that organized religion has all the answers anyway.

atlantis: Diva, what I can't explain is how 3 out of 4 people in the same house had the exact same dream on the exact same night. We were all in different areas of the dream, but we were all in the same place.

LadyMist: We are both One and separate...think of as as separate nodules or protrusions on the same sphere for example.

Wunjo: WOW LadyMist I wish I could get published:)

lion: Logically, I buy that we are all one, that we were created from God or Spirit or whatever you want to call this one. This creation never changed our nature. It only impacted our awareness of self. And Know Thyself is the only real task we have in the game of life. Ultimately this leads to the realization that we are All That Is.

raven: lady mist, yes! or facets on a jewel...

bg: i work with stones (should i change my nickname to moses?) when i create physical items.

diva: LadyMist...ever heard of the Artist's Way? it's been great for me w/ my creative blocks--in singing, writing AND drawing!

LadyMist: bg, I know, I'm being a bit facetious...but we are expressing differing points of view. *smile*

atlantis: It's hard to explain Diva. They tell me that they are my teachers. I also have one that is a student, a lower voice that I must teach. I'm to explain things to her (and she is female) and correct her when she's wrong.

LadyMist: Diva...hmmm, that rings a faint bell...care to tell us more?

lion: atlantis: for me they go as far as speaking the words in my mind and these go directly through my fingers. I am not aware of being a part of the creative process, though I fully enjoy doing it.

LadyMist: Raven--yes, I like your analogy much better! *grin*

LadyMist: Wunjo, took a lot of work and study...writing and rewriting...lots of rejection...but I was very determined.

lion: I stand corrected raven. Have never done much with religion.

tesa: LadyMist.....are we arguing? I thought we were sharing on the experiences we have of reality! "I know your kidding!" **grin** and good point though! Our differences are perceived because of the very fact of One Self and Its aspect of Omnipresence, Omnipotence and Omniscience! Our Self Will manifests our different experience of Reality!

diva: atlantis--my shiatsu therapist (whom i've known and gone to for almost a year now) had a horrible night the day her husband left her. that night (i found out about it the next day) i had a dream about her calling me and needing to tell me something. it's that whole connection thing. the higher your connection w/ someone, the more involved you become in their subconscious??

atlantis: I know what you're saying lion, but have you ever stopped creating long enough to listen. That's where I made my mistake long ago. I never learned to listen. They were always there, but I just couldn't hear them or sometimes I'd even dismiss them as part of my own thought patterns.

raven: diva, i think we are all connected to each other and to the earth itself...thats what the earth's magnetic grid is about.

LadyMist: Tesa, yes, perhaps that's the same as saying our Ego creates the perception of separation...?

diva: LadyMist--it's basically a 12-week (12 step?? *grin*) program which you work through either on your own or in a group, working through various stages of gaining courage/compassion/freedom/etc. w/ your creative self. it really is incredible! i'm on week 10 *grimaces*

atlantis: A lot of times it's easier for us to transmit thoughts than to receive them. Perhaps you could recieve because your more aware of how but she couldn't because she doens't have the ability yet.

raven: lady mist, yes...ego chooses to be separate so that it can have someone else to communicate with...

bg: must leave - thank you all for a most enjoyable discussion. namaste.

lion: Hmm... atlantis, for 35 years all I did was listen. Then I was compelled to write, or allow spirit to express through me as it were. One it started I could not turn it off again.

atlantis: Raven, I think it's just tuning into that magnet.

LadyMist: Diva, I think I heard about that through my quilt-art mailing list. Is there something on the Net about it? Can you do it through correspondence?

atlantis: lion, some people spend a lifetime listening for them. They are so simple to find. Remember what I said that sometimes they do get mixed in with your own thoughts. Learn to separate and listen again. They are there.

tesa: Exactly the same, LadyMist! ::)

diva: LadyMist--it's actually a book (you'll find it in almost any alternative bookstore, guaranteed) and there are a few things on the net about it. the author is julia cameron.

LadyMist: I'll look for it, diva! Thanks! *big smile*

diva: atlantis, i think i tend to be a receiver. i get a lot of dreams from people i know who are unknowingly "sending their energy" at me when they don't realize it.

tesa: Diva, I would say.....Its to do with the one reflecting the most like you!

atlantis: Diva, I know that feeling. I also get it during the day. I know things before they happen, I write about things that haven't occurred yet and I answer questions for people before they ask. I don't know how. But if I try to concentrate on it and do it, I can't.

diva: atlantis-many a time has that happened for me as well...my car accident in august, for instance....

raven: atlantis, that is my experience too...if i try it just messes everything up...the key is to relax and just be for me.

LadyMist: Hey Zardoz, welcome. By the way, how long is this discussion scheduled to run, lion?

LadyMist: Knowing things before they happen doesn't happen to me spontaneously, but I do have some success with Tarot cards.

atlantis: Diva, Raven, thank you. I'm glad that there are others that experience the same things because for a long time I thought I was going crazy and I use to sit and cry. It helps me to know that there are others going through the same thing. Thank you again.

lion: Well. THANK YOU all for participating tonight. This is the most discussion we've had in these forums to date. Starting next week we are moving to Monday nights. See the Community Forum section of The Search for Center Newsletter for details. Any final remarks?

lion: LadyMist: as long as it takes. 90 minutes is probably a reasonable length.

atlantis: thank you lion. THis was my first time here and I enjoyed it very much.

raven: lady mist, i went to stonehenge the other day for a few minutes...this is the first real discussion i have participated in.

atlantis: Wunjo, thank you for inviting me down.

Wunjo: will all who would like to be on my e list give me the e-mail add:) I will sent out reminders for forums:)